“Believing cultures are equal is West’s biggest disease”
He’s being prosecuted for an alleged hate speech against Islam and Dutch MP Geert Wilders calls the Koran a “fascist book”, and Islam “a retarded culture”. Yet, he also claims he has nothing against Muslims.
RT: How can you be not against Muslims and be against Islam?
G.W.: Well I don't hate people. I hate nobody. I have no grudge against any person whatever religion social or sexual background they have, but I have a problem with totalitarian ideologies and I believe that Islam is more an ideology than a religion in fact. So it’s very possible to have nothing against the persons individually I mean most of the Muslims in Holland are in fact law-abiding people, like you and me, but still if the numbers grow, then our society will change entirely and I believe not for the better.
RT: Your film about Islam, Fitna, has fuelled the debate on race in Holland. Do you claim to be objective in it?
G.W.: Certainly not objective, no. I'm a politician and an objective politician is a contradiction in terms. I am not objective. So of course with a lot of arguments I say what I think about Islam and I believe the biggest disease in the West today is called cultural relativism: people who believe out of political correctness that all cultures are equal. I don't think so. I think that a culture based on Christianity on humanism, on Judaism, is a far better culture than a retarded culture like the Islamic culture.
RT: Do you consider yourself a xenophobe?
G.W.: No, I'm certainly not a xenophobe and all those people. I mean if you look at the polls today, you are the third biggest party in Holland we've got 23 seats out of 150 in the post today and two years ago we had only nine seats. So we are enormously popular and with those kind of people. Millions of people in Holland are not xenophobes or racists or whatsoever. They just feel that they are losing their country, their identity. It’s not the Netherlands anymore and people have concerns about that and I will fight for them to preserve the identity of the Netherlands against the influx of indeed a retarded Islamic culture. Now my aim is not to offend people.
RT: But you've offended those Muslims just now!
G.W.: It might be. What I'm saying, it’s not my aim. My aim is to warn against Islamisation.
RT: Mr. Wilders, do you believe in freedom of religion?
G.W.: I believe Islam is more an ideology than a religion. I believe if you compare it., you see Islam is not just one other leaf on the tree of religions. It’s not to be compared with Christianity, with Judaism, with Buddhism. It’s more to be compared with another tree about totalitarian ideology. So I think Islam is more to be compared with communism or fascism or other totalitarian ideologies than it’s to be compared with other religions.
RT: But surely by saying that your culture is better than the other culture, these are the views that are very similar that what Hitler had?
G.W.: So when you talk about reciprocity, the Arab world is everything but cultural relativism. They believe their culture is far better than our culture, while we are politically correct. I have nothing against other cultures. I believe that our culture should be dominant.
RT: What do you mean by the dominant culture?
G.W.: It means that first we have to make a new article, article 1 of the constitution – that some countries already have – saying that the Netherlands is a country which is based on the values of Christianity and Judaism and humanism to make it clear, which means that the Netherlands should not change into a dominant other culture. For instance, you can do that by stopping immigration from Muslim countries.
RT: Have you actually read the Koran from beginning to end?
G.W.: Many verses, many translations
RT: One of the verses from Koran you are citing in your film is this “those who have disbelieved our signs we shall roast them in fire.” Now can you tell me in what context that verse is being in used in Koran?
G.W.: Well, most of the Koranic verses…
RT: No, but this particular one.
G.W: No, I'm not talking about this particular one. I'm talking about most of them because you have to see it in the context. And if you study the life of Mohammed you will see most of them are based on that.
RT: This particular verse actually explains what will happen to a disbeliever when he goes to hell, and that’s obviously the kind of verse we can find in the Bible as well.
G.W.: It’s not being seen as going to hell. It’s interpreted, unfortunately, by many Muslims that it’s during the lifetime of a person.
RT: Well how about this one in the New Testament attributed to Jesus saying to his disciples: “These enemies of mine who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence”?
G.W.: This is written down in a different way of wording like you just said in that time. Then it’s written in the Koran. Look at surahs, look at the imperative way it is said in many surahs. But secondly, Christianity had in all the centuries had a change of enlightment, and today almost nobody kills today or makes terrorist acts today in the world, whether it’s in Russia, whether it’s in Holland, in Madrid or in London on behalf of Christianity…
RT: There are such groups.
G.W.: Ninety-nine percent, not all Muslims are terrorists, but 99 per cent of the terrorist acts in the world are done by Muslims. You can not ignore that of course.
RT: Well actually religious and secular extremism exist across all nationalities and groups. How about the Christian identity, the Ku Klux Klan, the Army of God?
G.W.: They are not only minority, but they are also culturally seen not as the biggest problem today. Of course we have extremists, even within the Jewish community and the Christian. We have it also in the atheists, the people who don’t believe in anything. But it doesn't change the fact that we have a problem with Islamic culture.
RT: What do you think of Israel’s recent attacks on Gaza where more than a thousand people, most of them civilians, were killed?
G.W.: I hope our government would have acted the same if from just over the border in Belgium, let’s say, or from Cologne just over our border with Germany, if we had been attacked by the missiles, if our cities were bombarded, I would hope that the Dutch government would have been as brave as the Israeli government in defending their people. So I fully understand why the Israelis acted like they did.
RT: You suggest banning women from wearing burka, saying that this will free them. But have you actually asked what Muslim women think about that?
G.W.: I don't care what they think about it. It’s totally irrelevant. I'm not elected by them here. I'm elected by people who share my view. I don't care what those women think, but I also do it for them. I don't do it out of hatred or anything else, I really believe that if you wear a burka in Holland, you will have a very tough time to integrate and if you want Muslim women to have a job and education and to be independent. Young Muslim women should be independent in Holland. This is what I'm fighting for. And if you wear a burka, please believe me, you will have no Dutch friends, you will get no job. It would be difficult to find any job.
RT: You are facing prosecution and soon will be tried for an alleged hate speech and discrimination. What will the outcome be of this trial?
G.W.: I think it’s very sad not only because it’s me, but because it’s one step down from the freedom of speech. And I believe that people should be allowed, especially elected politicians, to say what they believe.
RT: The mayor of Rotterdam is Muslim. What do you think about that?
G.W.: I think it’s very bad, not because he is Muslim, but because he has a double nationality. And I believe I also tried to send some ministers away from parliament two years ago because they have a double nationality. I believe that if you are a minister, if you are a secretary of state, if you are a member of parliament, if you are a mayor of the city, if you are an important public figure, if you have a position, you should only have loyalty to your own country. So you can not have two nationalities, because it means legally and otherwise that you have two countries to be loyal to.
RT: You've called the Netherlands the country of tolerance and consensus. How would you describe your attitude towards Muslims?
G.W.: You know the problem with Holland is that we were too long too tolerant. We should stop the immigration of Muslim people from Muslim countries. We should make it more clear and be more proud of our identity, values and culture. We should stop the Islamic symbolism. I wouldn't want to have more mosques in the Netherlands. I want Islamic schools to be closed and let the people integrate with other children from other religions in public schools, and I want to have tough penalties to people who are committing crimes, send then away. Send them out of Holland, denaturalise them if they have double nationality. If we do that, it will not only be good for Holland, but it will certainly be good for those Muslims who are in the Netherlands today and who are behaving themselves.
RT: Mr Wilders, thank you for the interview.