Ukrainian activists ban essential symbol of Victory parade, veterans shattered
Published: 10 May, 2009, 11:20
The Victory Parade is a 64-year-old tradition that unites all former Soviet Republics. But an organization in Western Ukraine called 'Svoboda,' is calling for the banning of Soviet Symbols from Victory celebrations.
For those that are interested, the Soviet flag has historical significance, for two reasons. The first, is because it was hoisted above the Riechstag in Germany by soviet soldiers, giving a graphic moment to symbolized the defeat of Nazi Germany. The second, was that in terms of legal entity, being historically correct, the Soviet Union was the national power, fighting as part of the Allies, against the Axis powers. It would be nice from some Russians perspective, to rewite history, and have the Russian flag there, but we just can't rewrite history. So this Soviet flag, in the context of Victory Day, is the correct historical representation, of the ones who fought as part of the Allies to defeat Nazism. So if you want to represent history accurately, you have to have this symbol there, not having it would be as absurd as having a museum of American history, without showing the stars and stripes. However, Like all symbols and history, you will see some take dates and meaning tout of context to justify positions. This is not history, but political manipulation. My simple advice as always, do your own research, do not rely on others, be it me or anyone else. Certainly do not rely on ones with a constant monotonic position, and do not rely on internet searches in a single language to cover international issues. So go and enjoy your own research; the more the diversity of individuals contributing the better. Have fun!
CountCash, the contradiction in the Stalinist Soviet participation of WW2 was that it was an evil power fighting in a just cause. Post-Soviet Russia has never come to grips with this contradiction, has never expressed remorse for its Soviet-era criminality and has never sought reconciliation with many of its victims. You say that Soviet regalia is historically accurate in the context of WW2. So is Nazi regalia. Yet Germans do not remember their war dead under the swastika. This is because the suffering and injustice which that symbol caused is so grotesque that respect for its victims naturally forbids its use. Soviet Communism lasted longer than the Third Reich, and killed many more people. It enslaved many more in Siberian concentration camps than did the Nazis in theirs. It occupied perhaps not quite as many countries as the Nazis did, but occupied them for much, much longer, under an equally as oppressive regime of police state terror. And it continued in this until less than 20 years ago. In 1991 Baltic people were still dying in their own cities under the tread of Soviet tanks and by Soviet bullets. The suffering and injustice which the hammer and sickle caused is absolutely enormous, and just as with Nazi victims, this suffering is sacred. Russia is faced with a choice: either it respects that suffering and acknowledges the indelible association of the hammer and sickle with it. Or it shows itself heedless and insensitive to it. In the latter case, it will have do deal with precisely the kind of automatic reflex reaction which its neighbours, from the Ukraine to the Baltics, exhibit. Whereas Russia has a choice, its Soviet-era victims did not, and do not. They had no choice as to whether or not they fell under Soviet Moscow’s tyranny in the past. And they have no choice about the emotional reaction which the symbol of that tyranny, the hammer and sickle, automatically evokes in them today.
The Soviet Flag is the historical truth, that represents one group of the allies that fought to defeat of the Nazis, it is as simple as that. Just the same way the US flag was, the Union Jack was, indeed all the flags of the Allies. These are the flags to be present on rememberence days, including our victory day, to correctly, historically show who defeated the Nazis. Yes there are lunatic extremists, who might say, you shouldn't use the Union Jack, because that is a symbol of oppression in the UK over the Welsh, Scottish and Irish who were biiterly oppressed, or that it represents the bitter oppression in the British Empire, or it represents bitter oppresssion of the Iraqi people now. Similarly another Lunatic could say the Stars and Stripes represents the oppression of the Red Indians, the oppression of the slaves, the oppression of the people of Yugoslavia and Iraq. Yet another extremist could say that the Australian flag represents the oppression of the Abhorigines, or the Baltic countries flags represent biitter oppression they assisted in Iraq .... So remove them all from everything to do with remeberence, how truly absurd. The lunatic extremists game goes on and on. Anyone can play the game, if the cap fits wear it. Hey why have a Russian flag, because this represents the oppression of the Russian peasants This is where the flag burning starts, this is where the extremism is seated. This is why US flags are burnt, all by extremists. This is where the Nazis reappear. The extremist changes history to suit where they want to lead the people. The honourable leader educates their people to be able to stick to historical facts, and handle any pain associated with the truth. To ask a soldier to undergo immence suffering, to defeat the Nazis, and then claim that the task is too great to for someone to differentiate between multiple uses of the same symbol, is absolutely absurd and laughable. The Nazis must never be remembered, in terms of any symbology, and regalia, even the smallest organisational part. The Nazis completely Natzified germany, any connection to them, however small, must never be made in terms of rememberance. The message must be simple to all our generations. 1. The Nazis were evil 2. The allies defeated them in a just cause, and are rembered with honour for who they were, in true historical terms, with their flags, regiments, medals ... We owe a huge debt to these people. 3. That there was no honour in being a Nazi, it was rank evil. There was no honour, there was no bravery, it was just evil. The suggestion to remember Nazis is revulsive and proposterous and would only come form a true Nazi extremist. such ideas, re-seed the ground for the lunatic extremists, and when the hell lets loose, and the dying starts, the innocent ones, once again are slaughtered. The fate of a Nazi, s a simple grave, with ourselves asking mercy on their soles. nothing else. This is our humanity, sending them to the hell they deserve. The message must aways shine bright that no part of the Nazis will be remembered. Otherwise, they will return! The EU and NATO were organisations, founded to secure security in Europe, they need wake up and stamp out lunatic movements who are trying to play dangerous games in constructing historical fiction, based on confused logic, and confused historical timelines. If they don't then they are simply failing to do their job.
I agree with CountCash, to commemorate anything under the swastika would be an obscenity because of the unspeakable suffering which Nazism caused. Soviet Communism caused similar suffering, and those who suffered under both the swastika and the hammer and sickle, like the Baltic countries and other, see very little difference between the two. The emotional reaction which both flags justifiably evoke in them is a similar one of revulsion. To compare either the crimes of the swastika or of the hammer and sickle with the crimes committed under any other flag on earth would be a nonsense. Those two are in a class of infamy all their very own.
To begin with , this article deals with UKRAINIAN activists in UKRAINE , so who cares about what flag moscovites want to display . The simple truth is that Ukrainians don't want anything to remind them of the "bad old days " , when russia was painted red . Not that the " new , democratic Russia " , is any improvement .










The war veterans may have sacrificed for the hammer and sickle in good faith. But that same hammer and sickle was the symbol under which millions and millions of entirely innocent civilians were enslaved in Siberian labour camps, or killed outright. And not in the context of the turmoil of war, but in sheer cold blood, at the whim of a murderous dictator and his heartless terror apparatus with which he calmly strangled nation after nation after nation. That flag, and the evil it represented, unfortunately cannot be separated from the sacrifice of those who fought for it in good faith – the crimes committed in its name have just been too horrendous. If the government of Russia, the primary successor of that criminal Soviet regime, now came clean and honoured the sacrifices of the sincere while condemning and prosecuting the crimes of the guilty, and apologised to its millions of victims across Russia and Eastern Europe, perhaps the hammer and sickle could somehow still be flown with honour in the context of the battle against Nazism. But unfortunately the successors of Soviet totalitarianism have shown no appetite for doing this. So the matter has spiralled out of their control, as events in Ukraine, the Baltics, and across much of Eastern Europe have shown. Still, it is not too late for Russia to show that the children of the hammer and sickle are as capable of reconciliation with the Soviet entity’s many victims as were the children of the swastika. I hope we will see it in our lifetime.