Courage and fatalism are two sides of the same coin. Russians' courage led them to resist Nazi invaders throughout 4 years of war with a self-sacrificing stoicism that is absolutely remarkable. And Russians' fatalism led them to meekly yield to Communist oppressors for nearly 70 years with a self-sacrificing stoicism that is equally as difficult to understand.

The Russian pilots had to be courageous and heroic to withstand the tremendous German onslaught of the first two years. When the Nazis attacked on June 22, 1941, the Red Air Force was equipped with antiquated Polikarpov fighter planes, many of which were bi-wing crates. Regardless of certain death, the Russian pilots took off day after day to duel the Germans, often using Taran Orushie tactics of ramming the German bomber - sacrificing their lives for the Motherland. The Germans expected to quickly defeat the Red Air Force, and were stunned that the antiquated Russian aircraft would constantly rise up to fight their advanced aircraft. The sacrifice of the courageous Red Air Force pilots won time for the Russians to move their aircraft industries beyond the Ural mountains. The clever Germans never appreciated the need for a strategic bomber and thus, they were unable to destroy the relocated aircraft factories. By the time of the Kursk battle, the Russian industry was producing more advanced aircraft, some of which were superior to the German aircraft. This survival of the Red Air Force was only possible because of the courage of the pilots who sacrificed their lives in the first two years of the war to buy time for Russia to rebuild. There are several interesting stories about the French pilots who fought for the Red Air Force. They were very courageous and fought against great odds. When the war ended, the Russians permitted the French pilots to fly their Yak-3 fighters to their homeland as a gift. That must have been quite a scene when flight after flight of Red Air Force Yak - 3s landed at Paris to the cheers of the crowds.

Its funny how people from neo Nazi countries who had even sided with the Nazis during the war,will find something negative to add.

Thank you RT for another heart breaking but necessary eye witness stories by those who took part in the WWII great campaigns of the Eastern Front. I would like to know if there were German soldiers who crossed the line to join the Red Army after witnessing first hand the barbarity of the Nazi rulers? I also would like to know extent of European and world volunteers in the Red Army. Thanks Marzipan6 P/S. Your dislike for Russia has no bounds! Please be careful for strong passions can be destructive to those hold them as well as against those they are directed towards.

Notebooks & History, There were a few individual Germans who crossed over to the Russian side, but not whole units such as the Vlasov traitors. One interesting incident happened on the eve of the invasion on June 22, 1941. The invasion was scheduled to begin at 3:00 AM. A few hours before, a German enlisted man swam the Bug river to warn the Russians that Germany was about to attack. The Russians took him for a provocateur and dismissed his warnings. After Germany's surrender at Stalingrad, Field Marshall Von Paulus went over to the Russian side. There were no German units fighting for the Red Army.

Thank you for your insights. What a shame that the Red Army did not listen to the warning of this brave German soldier. Do you know what happened to this German soldier who tried to warn the Russians of immediate Germany attack in June 22, 1941? I think, the surrender of Field Marshall Von Paulus was too little too late. I have seen number of mainly British documentaries on the Battle for Stalingrad. These docs show that the Russian made number of attempts to safe the lives of German soldiers after they were cut off by the Red Army but Von Paulus had refused to surrender. I have strong feeling that perhaps fair bit of German soldiers simply changed their uniforms and perhaps their names and joined the Partisans or the Red Army. There are hints of this in number of recent films such as a German film- Stalingrad. This theme is also hinted at rather cheesy historical revisionist Russian film, Hanz and Paulina. Logic suggests that socialist/left leaning Germans would join the Red Army against the forces of the Third Reich.

Notebooks & History, I failed to mention that the Red Army did have some combat units consisting of Estonians. These were primarily infantry and a few tank battalions. The personnel from these units were considered as heros during the USSR era; however, once Estonia became independent , these old veterans fell on hard times because the "real Estonians" (who fought for the Germans) despised them, took away their apartments and honors. These Red Army Estonian troops fought courageously at the Velikie Luki, Narva and in the Russian naval marine assault on the island of Saaremaa. The Red Army naval marines (including Estonians) who invaded Saaremaa suffered terrible casualties, but they carried out their assignment of establishing a beachhead.

I don't know what happened to the German soldier. I doubt that the Russians took much pity on the Germans trapped at Stalingrad. They offered the Germans chances to surrender to save their own troops and not out of any kindness towards the Germans. There might have been individual cases of sympathy, but I suspect they were very rare. Hitler's wehrmacht marched into the USSR with incredible arrogance born from their master race mentality. They viewed all Russians as "undermenchen" (subhumans) and treated them thus. This was a war of extermination with no quarter given on either side. The Red Army soldiers referred to all Germans as "Fritzes" and showed them no mercy. The propaganda slogan of the day was: "Comrade kill your German". As the Red Army liberated German conquered territories, they became even more enraged by the murders and brutalities committed by the Germans against the civilians. Any German that tried to go over to the Russian side was most likely shot to death. Field Marshall Von Paulus wanted to surrender at Stalingrad, but Hitler refused to permit such action.

Kihnu, Thank you for your comment. Hate and revenge are powerful forces. What is remarkable is how Germany and Russia made peace and have reconciled with their past after fighting savage war of the 20th century against each other. I think it is also pertinent to stress that "The Master Race" ideology was not unique to Germany. The philosophical bases of German Fascism were the products of the 19th century European racist/ expansionist thinking. The French, the British and the Americanracialists theorists advanced European racialist ideology. These ideas were taken up in Germany 1930s. If we fail to see this wider link and intead focus on the rise of German fascism as a mutation/aberration of European modernity, we will would not learn the moral lesson of the rise and fall of the Third Reich. The racialist ideology that "Slavs were inferior race" was fully developed in the United States racialist theorists such as Madison Grant and there was immigration exclusion of the Slavs in the United States several decades before the rise of Hitler and the Third Reich in Germany. The racialist ideology that guided the Third Reich was a collective European project. The Third Reich racialist ideologies were first developed by Arthur de Gobineau (French), Houston Stewart Chamberlain (Briton) and Madison Grant (U.S.A). Today, there is a hope because Germany and Russia have overcome their past and are peaceful partners but we need to learn the lessons of Nazism-which are based on racism, colonialism and militarism.

Notebooks and history, Prior to the advent of Naziism, Germans and Russians got along quite well, and the Russian aristocracy had a strong German blood line. Hitler and Stalin were criminally insane monsters who were a curse on their respective countries. Neither was born in the country which they eventually terrorized. The valiant Red Army destroyed Hitler's war machine. Hitler's best troops and arms were fighting on the Eastern Front, and this allowed the US and UK to launch their D-Day invasion. I will recommend the following DVD for you. Unfortunately, it is in Russian without English subtitles. But, worthwhile viewing. ШТРАФБАТ (penal battalion) - this 11-part serial probably one of the most poignant renditions of WW II ever produced. It deals with the a penal battalion of the Red Army, and touches on emotional subjects which would never have been put into a film during the USSR. The purpose of the movie is to realistically depict the hell men went through in the Red Army’s penal battalions. The 65th Victory Day parade on May 9th will be a memorable one because very few of the old veterans will be around for the 70th celebrations. I will be attending the Victory Day celebrations in Tbilisi, Georgia. Such a shame that Saakashvili ruined Georgia's relations with Russia, because the Georgians in the Red Army made a courageous contribution to the defeat of Hitler, and deserve to attend the Moscow celebrations.

To Kihnu: Yes, there were some Estonian units in the Red Army. The background to this is sombre. When Soviet Russia invaded Estonia by stealth and deception in 1940 without the Estonian army having fired a shot against them, Soviet authorities considered two tasks to be equal priorities: the first was arresting thousands of Estonian civilians as an exercise in sheer terror, and either killing them outright or deporting them to Siberian slavery, where most died anyway. The other priority was disbanding the Estonian army. Many of its officers were executed, and the bulk of its members were re-assigned into the Red Army, and moved off to the Russian hinterland, well away from the front, essentially to perform slave labour, where a large number died from hunger, disease, overwork and cold. Only a small number were groomed to actually perform as combat troops in the Red Army. Their numbers were small enough to represent no danger to the Red Army itself, yet large enough to serve as an object of Russian propaganda demonstrating Estonia’s “willing” incorporation into the Soviet Union. Even many of them deserted the first opportunity they got. Estonians do not blame those who did not desert for fighting in Soviet uniform, because they were, in fact, fighting against Germany, which was one of Estonia’s implacable enemies. Just as they don’t blame others who fought in German uniform because these were fighting against another of Estonia’s implacable enemies. The absolute tragedy of this situation is highlighted in desperate and bloody Saaremaa battles to which Kihnu refers, where brother fought against brother in opposing armies of Estonia’s two historic enemies. Estonians who fought in German uniform were certainly persecuted in Soviet-occupied Estonia after the war. But no Estonian who fought in either army has been persecuted in any way in post-Soviet Estonia because of their war service. In claiming otherwise, Kihnu is not telling the truth.

To Notebooks & History: I have no dislike for Russia or Russians. But I have profound dislike for the mass murder and mass deportation into Siberian slavery of untold thousands of people from across Eastern Europe. Don’t you? It happens to be a fact that most of these who carried out these torments were Russians – that is not my fault, but I’m certainly not going to deceive myself or anyone else, by saying they were Peruvians or Chinese. I also do dislike the post-Soviet Russian practice of congratulating itself loud and long for being WW2 liberators, when in reality they brought no liberty at all to any place they went, but were simply instrumental in replacing Nazi German totalitarian terror with Soviet Russian totalitarian. Such a transition was hardly liberty, and inserting a note of reality into some such self-congratulations would be helpful. The only liberty that the Red Army fostered was in Western Europe, as Soviet efforts helped hugely in the defeat of Hitler and the re-establishment of genuine freedom in the west of the Continent. And for this, I am grateful. Notebook also wonders whether any Germans crossed over to the Russians after witnessing Nazi barbarities. As Kihnu points out, hardly any did. But thousands of Russians crossed over to the German side after witnessing Soviet barbarities. Kihnu alludes to that in his reference to General Andrey Vlasov. Kihnu calls him a traitor, and so does Russia. But in 1942 the Soviets decorated him with the Order of the Red Banner for his efforts in the defence of Moscow. Later he turned against the Soviet regime, not because he chose to fight for Germany but because he chose to fight for a genuinely free Russia, and not for Soviet totalitarianism. His ideal was the kind of Russia that in fact began emerging after 1991. I don’t believe General Vlasov or his troops thought of themselves as turning against Russia.

Notebooks and History, If you are interested in the WW II Red Army, you might visit my website at http://www.tasuja.com. It's dedicated to the men and women who fought the Germans and the awards they received. I plan to document the Tbilisi Victory Day parade and incorporate it into my website.

Kihnu, I have commented before that your extensive website contains some absolutely remarkable exhibits, presented in a highly attractive and in a very high quality way. I disagree with the objectivity of some of the political views you express on this forum, but I have to give credit where credit is due. Your website is outstanding.

Kihnu thank you so much for the link. I will visit your website!

Marzipan6 Now, even in West, by which I mean the United States, Great Britain and its allies, it has been acknowledged that between 1941-1945 close between 25-30M Soviet people were killed as a result of the WWII fighting in the Eastern Front. How many of this 30M million Soviet people were “Russians”? One million people were starved to death in Leningrad, most of them women and children? Do you think these Russian victims deserve memorial and remembrance? Russia has the right to celebrate the defeat of the Third Reich after defeating the Germany’s invisible armies in Stalingrad, Moscow, and Kursk. I think many of us love Russia for its bravery and heroism. In your case, it is clear your passions have clouded you to see fact as what they are. Also, you did not comment on the fact, pseudo scientific theories of ‘Slavic/Russian inferiority’ including immigration exclusion were fully developed in the United States in early part of 19th century and that the U.S Congress had passed number of immigration exclusion directed at excluding Slavs in the earlier part of the 20th century. This ironic is worth stressing face that today white Americans want to to adopt “Slavic looking” Russian children. As for Estonia and other anti-Russian Eastern European countries, today they are willing partners of the U.S global imperialism even as they play up their anti-Russian card of victimhood!

To marzipan6, I curiously opened this forum and saw you are still going around bitting the drum with the same old deep hatred tune against the Russians. Even though I gave you undeniable facts in the other forum to prove you wrong, which you admitted it yourself, your deep rooted source of hatred against the Russians does not diminish. You are must be having nightmares just by reading the word “Russians” and the best way to overcome your fears is to seek professional help. I strongly recommend that to you.

To “Notebooks and History” who mentions Russian casualties of WW2, and asks whether these people deserve memorials: they certainly do, and they have them. But a Stalinist mind-set has a way of polluting even the most sacred things, and this is what it has also done to the memory Russian war-time suffering. Such suffering is morphed into evidence that Russians therefore did not bring similar sufferings to their neighbours but instead liberated Eastern Europe. Some liberty, all right – a nightmare of Stalinist terror and fifty years of totalitarian oppression. It is the assertion of this kind of grossly insulting and hurtful deceitfulness that Russia’s Soviet-era victims object to, and rightly so. While you’re defending the right of Russians who suffered in the war to have monuments honouring their pain, please tell me, where is Russia’s monument to the 100.000 innocent Baltic civilians whom Soviet Russia deported to Siberian slavery, and to the untold thousands of others whom it murdered outright? Or don’t they matter, and doesn’t common decency obligate Russia to remember what Russians did to their neighbours, and to reconcile with them? You’re right, “Notebooks”, I didn’t comment on your “anti Slavic/Russian” theories in regard to America. I am not American, do not live there, have only partial knowledge of the history of American internal politics, and am not an apologist for America. You would need to discuss this matter with an American. Finally, regarding your allegation about Estonia’s anti-Russian demeanour: Estonia is not anti-Russian, but anti- those Russian policies that have brought vast suffering and loss to it in the past, and that hold the potential of doing the same in the future. Such policies of the past and present, and of the suffering they have caused, are not “cards” to be “played”, but realities to be dealt with. Including by Russia, which has established a long track record of ducking them instead.

To Stole: (1) I do not hate Russia or Russians, as I have said many times, and will say as many times again as someone accuses me of this. (2) My posts factually address untruthful claims of Stalinist propaganda which Soviet Russia made its own and aspects of which post-Soviet Russia continues to both embrace and proclaim. If my factual refuting of this is the same today as it was a year ago, it is because (a) Soviet-era lies that Moscow proclaims are still the same now as they were then, and (b) the facts that establish the truth of the matter, and which are acknowledged everywhere in the world apart from Russia, are also still the same. Rather than berate me, perhaps you should ask why does Moscow hold to positions in regard to the Baltics which no serious historian anywhere else in the world agrees with? I will add, though, that Moscow’s positions on history are extremely fluid, just as they have always been. While loud to blame others for “rewriting history” it is only Moscow that changes its views on history from decade to decade, sometimes almost from year to year. Putin’s current position about Katyn, for example, is not the same as it was a year or two ago – in the meantime, he has accepted some realities that he denied before. Perhaps one day the same dynamic will operate in regard to his views about matters Baltic, at which time my posts will become unnecessary. (3) You have never provided any facts to disprove the common position of historians worldwide which my posts reflect. You have only repeated, without benefit of facts, Stalinist propaganda positions which became standard Soviet bias and post-Soviet “received wisdom” in Russia, and you assume that such arbitrary conclusions themselves are primary facts. They are not. (4) My Russian friends would find your attempts at amateur psychology highly amusing, and would no doubt join me in urging you not to give up your day job.