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Latvia equates Stalinism and Nazism

Published: 22 August, 2009, 08:28
Edited: 24 June, 2010, 07:39


Russian and Jewish groups have hit out at a new Latvian national holiday that commemorates the victims of Stalinism and Nazism on the same day.

 
43 COMMENTS
Aleksei August 21, 2009, 10:23 quote
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If anything, Stalin was MORE ruthless and inhuman than his brother facist Hitler. But of course he lasted longer than Hitler, No one in Russia had the courage to kill Uncle Joe......and dont forget ,Russia, you are still getting over 70 years of his "party's " rule. Anyone for a free Siberian open air vacation? Love the long food lines? Ah yes, the GOOD old days.......DA?

johnx August 21, 2009, 10:56 quote
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Latvia or should I say the Latvian rifles were at the forefront of installing Communism in Russia and after wards in Russia, Ukraine (instrumental in the famine), the Baltic’s and shipping arms to communist guerrillas in the Spanish civil war. "The Russian arms were not only shipped from Leningrad but also from the Lithuanian (and former German) port of Klaipeda, the Latvian port of Riga, and the Estonian port of Tallinn with the support of the Lithuanian, Latvian, and Estonian governments, respectively." "Last July, the Ukrainian Security Service released a list of high-ranking Soviet state and Communist Party officials -- as well as officials from NKVD, the police force of Soviet Russia -- that essentially blamed Khazars and Latvians responsible for perpetrating and executing the famine because most of the names on the list were Khazars" "Where did the Bolsheviks get the force that allowed them to seize power? The most reliable and potent military force that the Bolsheviks controlled was the Latvian Rifles: this force supplied the bayonets in the Petrograd coup and the dismissal of the Constituent Assembly. Without the power of these disciplined troops the Bolshevik coup might not have happened at all. The other force behind Bolshevik rule was the Cheka, the political police. Its first leader was the Pole Feliks Dzherzhinskiy-Dzierzynski and, when he briefly resigned after the assassination attempt on Lenin in 1918, his principal deputy, the Latvian Jekabs Peters-Peterss, served as head, ably assisted by another Latvian, Martins Latsis-Lacis. So, given the essential role of Latvians in the coup itself and the creation of the Red Terror, perhaps Latvia should ask for compensation from itself."

Marzipan6 August 21, 2009, 12:10 quote
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The article laments that “No one has been punished in independent Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia for Holocaust crimes.” None of those three countries denies that some of their nationals had been implicated in Nazi war crimes. However, after fifty years of Soviet occupation, how many do you believe might remain un-executed by the Soviets? Unfortunately the article does not point out that (1) unlike in the case of Soviet Moscow’s crimes against humanity, the former were not an expression of any policy of sovereign Baltic nations, but rather, the individual crimes of individuals in occupied countries that had no government of their own; (2) that the Baltics have nevertheless repeatedly apologised for the crimes of those individuals, unlike Russia, which has never apologised to the Baltics for the crimes it committed there under the Soviet flag; and (3) that no one has been punished in independent Russia for Soviet crimes. These omissions make the article's anti-Baltic rhetoric hypocritical. Further, the article sidesteps the reality that it isn’t just Latvia that equates Stalinism with Nazism; all of Europe does, as do Western nations beyond Europe. It is only Russia that tries to say that anti-human Soviet savagery was somehow different to anti-human Nazi savagery, and it is mostly only Russians that believe this. As for the “Russian language not being welcome in Estonia,” I have travelled to Estonia on numerous occasions and have encountered many Russian newspapers, magazines, TV and radio broadcasts, and many Russian people going about their business in the Russian language with no hassles whatsoever. Nor is Estonia “obsessed with winning anything back from Russia.” Estonia has absolutely zero territorial or monetary claims against Russia, and any assertion to the contrary is simply fantasy. As for the article's confident prediction of "ethnic clashes", that is simply Russian journalistic nonsense.

Wonderer August 21, 2009, 12:53 quote
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Why is this a surprise? Did you forget that Stalin occupied the 3 Baltic states BEFORE Hitler's operation Barbarossa? Did you also forget that the Soviet Union occupied these culturally and linguistically different nations for decades, Nazi Germany only a few years? You reap what you sow.

MEJanssen August 21, 2009, 14:49 quote
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Has Russia planned what to do when the Baltics expel all the ethnic Russians? That is coming. Where will they stay when they have to return to Russia?

Rikard August 21, 2009, 15:11 quote
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The word victim - meaning “a living being sacrificed to deity or in the performance of religious rite” (Webster) – is the one bringing “broader confusion over the legacy of WW 2”. Implicitly victim contains bivalent nature: who executed and who was responsible to keep alive. (A state is not denying its responsibility for any car accident resulting with victims; were the regulations known and marked, and then takes into account the victim’s case. Same is in protecting from a terrorist acting, defending in war etc). Political trading of victims means denying responsibility and shifting the dilemma into accusation only. This is the confusing part. It is deliberate act and ultimately flashes the moral fire back. Stalin did not deny the responsibility to defend and Russians did not accuse Germans of being victims of fascism. They fought it. And did it with and without communism. Quite simple minded – victim is not a positive status of affairs. Humans live their identities morally organized. Fashionable human rights misinterpreted Christianity…

Gene Strong August 21, 2009, 16:04 quote
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Yep....This is pretty much true ...

Marzipan6 August 22, 2009, 08:17 quote
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ME Janssen’s suggestion that the Baltics will expel all Russian is nonsense fuelled by the general spirit of Moscow’s relentless anti-Baltic propaganda. Clearly MEJ does not know what kind of countries Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania really are, what the character of their people is, what their democratic constitution, laws and institutions are, what the actual nature of their current policies are, what their aspirations are for the future are, nor even what the current status of Russians is in those countries . However, he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know this. He appears to be well familiar with Moscow’s anti-Baltic propaganda and apparently assumes that it is indistinguishable from reality, and then writes his comments based on that profound misunderstanding. MEJ’s ignorance is excusable, and it can be easily remedied by him visiting the Baltics, travelling around there for a few weeks, and getting a personal measure of those countries and their people. He will find that whereas Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania differ from one another in many respects, they are as one in the rejection of the truly zany notions that Russians are to be expelled. Russia's propaganda, however, is inexcusable. Moscow knows the actual character of the Baltic countries very well, but chooses to distort it. The Kremlin also knows that Russians live better in Estonia than in any other post-Soviet country, and I have personal knowledge of a high-ranking Russian government minister admitting as much to his Estonian counterpart in off-the-record comments. But because Moscow feels that its geopolitical interests are best served by dishing up endless public criticism of Estonia and the Baltics, that is exactly what it does.

johnx August 22, 2009, 09:46 quote
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@Aleksei Stalin and Lenin before hand killed anyone who had to potential to rival his power and the fact like Communism itself had non ethnic Russians at its senior positions made it impossible to kill him. Communism was a Jewish political movement designed to over through and seize the assets of the Russian state. http://www.russians.org/communist.html Its was western cowardice and support in government, media and public support that keep the Soviet system afloat as well as the massive financial backing. @Marzipan6 Yet Estonia and the other Baltic states supported the KLA and independent Kosovo a mafia terrorist state terrorist trained by the US military schools and British SAS in Turkey. http://de-construct.net/e-zine/?p=6943 Why doesn't Estonia or the other Baltic states go to Israel or other states who were the lead organisers and war time NKVD mention or the fact that Olef Ashberg the Swedish banker financed the Soviet takeover of the Baltic’s whose descendent runs the largest TV production company in Sweden. Soviet Russia was able to capture the Baltic’s because it had help inside the countries. Baltic’s will never admit or mentions that the Jewish community in the country facilitated the Communist takeover of the Baltic’s and became its government heads after WW2. http://www.davidduke.com/general/the-jewish-marxists-behind-crimes-in-estonia-latvia-and-lithuania_10094.html#more-10094 As for Estonia when then is the CIA director there running operations against Russia?

johnx August 22, 2009, 09:47 quote
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@Wonderer You mean devised by the Georgian Stalin and the head of the NKVD Beria Georgian Jew? Russia was occupied for 70 years which western intelligence and all report at the time said clearly was a coup and destruction of Russia. http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/jewishactivistscommunism.html If western government and major banking families hadn't installed Communism in Russia in the first place and made every attempt to bring Communism on Russia Or in the modern time like supporting Islamic terrorism especially in the break up of Yugoslavia and the Islamic regime in Bosnia with Bin “boogyman” Laden backing. http://de-construct.net/e-zine/?p=7163 I guess it is just a coincidence that the post Soviet economy of Russia looted of 7/8 of its worth by economic policy by Soros and Harvard as well as to a handful of Oligarchs just happen to be Jewish? http://www.network54.com/Forum/84302/thread/1233603856/last-1233603856/Jewish+Appeal+to+Russia%27s+Jewish+Elite Or the so called Russian mafia which is not Russian. http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/criruss.htm

Warren Clarke August 22, 2009, 09:56 quote
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Communism isn’t equal to Nazism but WORSE, Communists murdered and oppressed far more people. Communist tyranny lasted more than Nazi tyranny. Latvia and other Baltic states have every right to compare and equate Nazism with Communism, and condemn both ideologies. Its incredibly ironic and disgusting for Russians to accuse the Baltic states of being sympathetic to Nazism when, racism and Nazism is endemic in modern Russia. Russian racists, nationalists and slavophiles like to chant the slogan “Russia for the Russians”. I say Estonia for the Estonians, Latvia for the Latvians, and Lithuania for the Lithuanians. Ethnic minorities in Russia are brutally abused and discriminated against, so Russia has NO RIGHT to complain about the plight of descendants of the Soviet occupation in the Baltic states. If ethnic Russians don’t like Estonia, Latvia, or Lithuania they should move to “mother Russia”. Unless of course these ethnic Russians prefer life better in the Baltic states rather than “mother Russia”. The West has a duty to protect the democratic Baltic states, they’re members of NATO. Russians who hate the Baltic states are hypocrites and liars.

Zak August 22, 2009, 10:01 quote
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There is no way for honest people to compare nazis and comunist.. NO.1- Nazis Europe attack Russian state(so theirs communist land, been a main target of attack-no other way around) A killer come ,to kill your family in your own home... NO;2 Russians march in(better be safe than sorry- as the English said) some countris to protect themself from coming genocide and also they sign pact with Germany-nazi Europe(only England,Serbia and Greeks did not take part in attack on Russia) witch play a part in their victory! NO;3 After genocide done by nazi Europe(with all Baltic states on board) Russia win and put you Under control for 40 years-lawfully right with justice done! A prooffen killers walk free after 4o years in prison-a warden(Russia)forgive you, and let you go..A criminals never ever forgive a victim-judge , who punish and put him in prison, and always think how to revenge their lost time(war)! A killer never think about his quilt and victim-only about his punishment! Comunism was a fake Hitler excuse before attack on Russia and trought your mouth speak his gost again and I am not suprise at all! Same nazi EUROPE speak with UNITED language again.. I dont remember that you ever said sorry or that you ever cry about ONE Russian kid kill or burn alive with his mothers in churches by your hand... I must tell all Baltic states and all Europe that you playing with fire! Puting in same basket nazis and communist sistem, you laught 27 millions innorcent victims force to die by you doing ... I must say,Russia "bad communist" sistem is quilty only of one thing to you( Baltics and 2-3 other states): TO LET YOU LIVE! Keep digging your grave and dont worry, next time Russia wont do the same mistake... FOR SURE!

alex August 22, 2009, 10:47 quote
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Latvian's are nazi's themselfs ... lol .. the whole western union is a block under nazi regime they are just using different tactics this time around ... who cares what they think .. their opinion is not important...russian language is not welcome in the baltics ... I don't know where you have been traveling Marzipan .. probably on internet ...

Marzipan6 August 22, 2009, 13:36 quote
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On the eve of the 70th anniversary of the infamous Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact of 23 August 1939 which was the final spark that triggered off WW2, it is sobering to note that present-day Russia’s interpretation of that Pact remains entirely Stalinist. There is no discussion in Russia of how, as a direct consequence of the pact, the SU hand-in-hand with Nazi Germany invaded Poland, wiped it off the map of sovereign countries, and divided its territory amongst themselves. Russians are not told how the SU was Hitler’s ally for nearly two years, which was about a third of the entirety of WW2. This alliance involved Russian participation in joint military actions, joint participation in military parades, and providing Germany with strategic war materials. This is simply not spoken about. Appearances notwithstanding, there was no real change in Russian leadership after 1991 – the old Soviet-era guard simply continued to rule under new colours, with Soviet security officers and their hand-picked protégés continuing to hold most positions of authority in Russia. One of the many negative results of this is that a genuinely free research of 20th Century Russian history is still not possible. Amongst the many things that ordinary Russians don’t realize is the similarity that Moscow’s post-imperial attitude towards the Baltics, for example, has to Nazi Germany’s attitude towards Czechoslovakia’s Sudetenland. Germans, who were the primary nationality in the old Austro-Hungarian Empire, became a minority in Czechoslovakia after WW1. Nazi Germany’s subsequent rhetoric in the “defence” of the German minority of the Czech Sudetenland did not particularly differ from the rhetoric of present-day Russian leaders about the “defence” of Russians in the Baltics. Same arguments, same harsh rhetoric – same dangerous hostility.

MEJanssen August 22, 2009, 13:55 quote
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Actually, Marzipan6, I base a lot of my understanding of the people in the Baltics from what YOU say. Cheers!

TDCNATA August 22, 2009, 14:50 quote
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Propaganda believers - Please learn the true facts about Stalin he was no Hitler. The atrocities were perpetrated by Lenin! Stalin was hard and made some mistakes in his Agricultural Policy. Show me a good Russian leader that was not hard. Khrushchev aided the West in the propaganda campaign against Stalin. Please study history and compare it logically with the evidence to separate lies from truth. For a simple start find the dead bodies, the cadavers! Russia did not have gas chambers or incinerators to manage 20 Million supposed bodies as was written in the West. What pisses everyone off is that Stalin created a Russia as a Super Power that frightened the West and he did it despite of America. His folly was his total lack of understanding of how to organise food production while re-built a country that had in literal terms been decimated by Hitler (Decimate: To kill one in ten). You have been spoon fed the lies now deal with how you feel about learning the truth. Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev is the big Russian liar. Learn about Stalin before you attack him he was not Hitler.

alex August 22, 2009, 16:03 quote
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yeah .. and US supporting Hitler with money ... Baltics joining the nazi .. nazi veterans parades in the baltics ..it's also something that is not spoken about

NickF August 22, 2009, 20:26 quote
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@Marzipan6. Do not forget that Soviet Red army crashed Hitlers Germany & and essentially liberated Europe of Nazis. Thanks to Russians, Estonia, for example, or any other European, is not an Nazi country. In my humble opinion, putting the equal sign between Stalin and Nazis, is dangerous experiment, aimed at dis-incrimination of Nazis. Thanks

Marzipan6 August 23, 2009, 01:41 quote
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Zak, what you write blissfully disregards facts. (1) You say that Nazis attacked the SU, not the other way around. True enough. But the SU invaded Estonia in 1940 while the SU was still Hitler’s ally, and while Estonia was totally neutral and at war with no one. Thereafter Russians commenced the pitiless mass deportation and murder of Estonian civilians which, along with post 1945 Soviet atrocities against their country, still continues to evoke horror amongst Estonians. (2) If you research a bit of history you will find that Estonia never had any alliance with Hitler, that repression was never a policy of any Estonian government, that Estonians fought within the German military towards the end of the War only because Russia had already disbanded their own military and they were desperate to prevent the return of the Red terror, and that very few Estonians were ever implicated in Nazi war crimes. (3) To characterise Stalin’s Soviet Union as some kind of arbiter of justice is bizarre beyond words.

jon August 23, 2009, 03:55 quote
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Reading the comments about nazism and communism [stalinism], I am at a loss to understand the major differences between the two. I read about millioms of people being murdered by thugs from both isms. I don't know the slants that propaganda attributes to each, but generally, the world would be much better if these attrocities would have been prevented. Which was the baddest seens irrelevant. I have been told that the only difference in socialism and communism is that with communism you have a gun pointed to the back of your head. Currently, Americaa is venturing into socialist programs that may lead it down a road of no return. Hopefully, America will wake up before it goes into phase II [communism]. History repeats itself all over the world and people never seem to learn from the bitter experiences of others.

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