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Anti-fascists not welcome in Estonia

Published: 31 July, 2010, 10:53
Edited: 19 September, 2010, 07:20


Estonian authorities have banned anti-fascist activists from entering the country. The activists were going to rally against the meeting of Estonian veterans who fought on the side of Nazi Germany.

 
221 COMMENTS
marko July 31, 2010, 12:32 quote
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Don't know about Lithuanian or Latvian ant-fascists, but this Finnish so called Anti fascist committee (does it have more than 3 members?) is lead by seriously mentally challenged narcissist people or they are working for FSB. If the latter case is true, FSB is doing a good job of causing friction between Finnish and Russian. But maybe this is the goal. And why would the Estonia want these crazy persons on their soil? These persons are telling blatant lies about Estonia. Suggesting it as an apartheid nation with no reason of existence. And all other lies fed by the Russian propaganda machinery. And probably this will get lots of angry comments by brain washed people who really believe these lies. Lenin's useful idiots springs to my mind here. This just proves that the Estonian decision (if there was one of course) was good to keep these propaganda machines out of their country as their lies seems to work for at least some more simpler people. And the Estonians have right to celebrate anything they want like Russians do too. But at least they are not having the whole country celebrate these things like the Russians are doing for victory day. The war Russia won was also attack war against Finland and by celebrating this without taking these "minor" things in account and all the suffering they caused to their neighbours, feels just as bad to Finnish as some Estonian SS troops celebrating to Russians. But Russia seems to like to play with other set of rules for them and other for other countries.

lucy July 31, 2010, 13:18 quote
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They not talk ab Russians there,by the way.I had been in Tallinn and was in shock that all fascist stuff u can buy there.I know now why? More people live there like u-rasist.Relax!!!! Forget ab Russians and look at uself.

alexstone July 31, 2010, 13:25 quote
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Marko, you can try and justify the Estonian decision to embrace Nazi fascism any way you want, but the facts are clear. Over 30 million lives were lost defeating the Nazi ideology, and yet here, in the 21st century, Estonia seeks once again to glorify their nazi contribution. Add that to the rampant apartheid (which is a fact. No other nation seeks to divide the people into official categories, not even South Africa anymore), and Estonia isn't enhancing it's "reputation" for the better. People who don't agree with reviving this terrible facist regime aren't automatically employees of the FSB. That's complete propoganda and nonsense. The fact that you side with the right of Nazi glorifiers clearly demonstates where your particular mindset resides. The bulk of Europe never wants Nazism to rear it's ugly inhuman head again, except, it seems, Estonia, just as the bulk of Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, and the majority of middle and eastern europe never want to see soviet style communism again, no matter what propaganda you and others seek to spread so enthusiastically. You're right that Estonians can celebrate anything they want. But the hypocrisy of "Estonian democracy" is apparent in their refusal to allow those opposed to the glorification of Nazi fascism to equally demonstrate, making their equally valid perspective clear, and sends a clear message to neighbours and beyond that Estonia cannot be trusted as a reliable partner in a democratic partnership. It's been recently reported that Estonia is experiencing a massive exodus of its brightest young people who don't want to live there any more, and the government is "concerned" that so many highly intelligent young men and women of Finnish, Latvian, Lithuanian, Ukrainian, Polish, and Russian origins are going elsewhere. The apartheid practised in Estonia is just the beginning, this celebration of Nazism is the next. Where will you go but down from here, greedily clutching your "gift" of US dollars.....?

stole July 31, 2010, 13:39 quote
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Estonia is one of the last Fascist countries on the Planet. Because it fuels aggressive and racist sentiment it should be stripped of its independence until it gets cured.

Wiking July 31, 2010, 19:05 quote
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So nice to see fingerpointing again;) Of course, it is pure facism to remember those men who fought to stop Soviet invasion to Estonia. One wise man once said "When you are attacked by rabid dog, it does not matter who gives you the stick to fend off that dog". Soviet Union was that rabid dog, who killed and deported thousands in Estonia in 1941 before the Great Patriotic War started. Thre was no other options for Estonians left in 1944, they accepted the stick from German army and held that rabid dog back for almost 6 months. They did not fight for Hitler, they fougth for their homeland and paid dearly for it. Russian propaganda still likes to lament that Estonia is a nazi state with apartheid policies. However, this is what it is: a propaganda. Otherwise maybe russians living in Russia will start asking why Estonia is enjoying much higher standard of living, freedoms and so on. What about facist stuff that you can buy in Estonia? Propably you can buy it, I do not know, I am not fan of this stuff. It is not prohibited to sell it, just like it is not prohibited to sell Soviet stuff. Even members of famous anti-facist movement Night Watch are selling nazi stuff- fake medallions made in Russian factories. I have never seen nazi symbols displayed openly in Tallinn, there have been no nazis attacking people in the streets. Can you say that about non-nazi Russia?;) By the way, there is (was?) a law in Russia which banned all foreigners from working as retailers in its shops and markets. No Russian citizenship, no license to work as a seller. How is that for an apartheid;)?

Norman July 31, 2010, 22:29 quote
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People who forget their mistakes often repeat them! Some people in Estonia and Latvia would support the Nazis, given their hatred for the former Soviet Union. As Jesus said: Can demons cast out demons? Do you replace hatred with hatred? Do two wrongs make it right? Obviously Estonia will not be in my future travel plans.

marko July 31, 2010, 23:04 quote
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I'm not Estonian nor Russian but visited both many times and know people from both. I think that I can see a little better the reality in these countries. I suggest to visit Estonia and speak some Estonians to learn something new for all these commentators who doesn't know nothing about this but Russian propaganda. Lucy: Only shop selling military stuff from past dictatorships I've seen was some USSR shop very near Hotel Viru which was full of Soviet wartime stuff. I do think it's weird, but then again it's a free country and people should be able to sell what ever decorations of terror they please. But I'm not so stupid that I would draw conclusion that the whole country is communists because of that. Stole: Good boy! Putin will pet your furry forehead. Fill your head with hate propaganda. Hope you wont find yourself feeling very stupid one day when you wake up and notice that you were filled with lies. (Or was your comment maybe sarcasm?)

marko July 31, 2010, 23:05 quote
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Alexstone: Defeating nazis were good job. I don't like any totalitarian systems whether communists or nazis. I still don't see connection with Estonia. 1940 there were 2 big totalitarian countries in Europe: SU and Germany. And they were allies. Both were monsters who liked to kill their own people and attack their neighbors. In Estonia or in Finland were no nazis, both just wanted to be independent and stay out of the war. This was not to be. 2010 the biggest non democratical country in Europe is Russia. Celebrating memory of SS soldiers who fought for Estonia doesn't make them nor other Estonians nazis like I suppose celebrating people fighting for Soviet Union don't make these people or other Russians communists. I'm not suggesting that leaders of this Finnish so called Anti fascist committee are mentally disturbed because they are against nazis. You should read their Soviet sounding drivel against everybody who dares to say anything against Russia or SU. They are really wanting to return of Soviet Union as unbelievable as it sounds. Can you maybe explain: 1) Estonia doesn't have any problems with any other nation than Russia as far as I know. Why nobody else is concerned with this "huge rise of Nazism"? 2) Why Russia has problems with all of it's neighbours, except China as far as I know? Is it all coincidence or just a conspiracy against Russia? When you think about that, it might occur to you that one of the above mentioned countries face big difficulties to have good relations with it's smaller neighbours and this "Estonian nazism" isn't known anywhere else than in Russia. About Estonians (and this is same for Russians escaping from Russia) moving to other countries I can give you some clue as I happen to know some of them. They are looking for more prosperious life in richer countries. Very simple. You have to remember that Estonia was ruined in war and lived under Soviet occupation for 50 years. It takes time to rise up from there.

Srbin July 31, 2010, 23:06 quote
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Estonia is member of Fourth Reich which is led by Anglo-American Fascists who defeated German and Italian, now they are one happy family TOGETHER at last.

stole August 01, 2010, 05:10 quote
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Wiking, You problem now is how to get rid of that STICK because once the devil responds to your prayers, he will possess you till the end of times. What we see in Estonia ever since its independence is just that, possessed by the devil and the only way to get rid of the devil is to call in an exorcist. Realistically speaking, Russia will have to intervene for the second time in so many years for the sake and well being of Estonian people.

marko August 01, 2010, 10:57 quote
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Stole & Srbin: I can well imagine that if internet would've been invented in 1930's these would be exactly like the comments some brainwashed blue eyed Hitler Jugend members would have been writing about jews or their neighbouring countries. Can you spend a minute thinking that you might be victims of Russian hate campaign against Estonians? If you believe that Soviet Union lied to it's people about basically everything, why is it so hard to believe that Russian current government could be doing the same and use you to achieve their goals? Or do you really trust them?

Marzipan6 August 01, 2010, 12:27 quote
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Because Estonia is not, never was and is most unlikely ever to be a fascist country, because all totalitarianism whether or the right or left is equally odious to Estonians, and because Estonians suffered greatly under Nazi occupation just as they did under Soviet occupation, anti-fascists are most welcome therer. But if the anti-fascists are also criminals, or promote civil unrest or abuse seek to cause mass offence, they may well be denied access – not because they are anti-fascists, but because they are pro-trouble. The origin of Russia’s anti-Estonian “Nazi” jibe is pathetic. Stalin tried to cover up his occupation of the Baltics by lying that they willingly and legally joined the Soviet Union. Therefore any subsequent resistance they had to the Red Army could not possibly be them fighting for their freedom, because they already were free -- Stalin told us so, and he certainly wouldn't lie. The only possible reason for the Baltic's resistance was therefore that they had become Nazis, and were fighting for Hitler. Estonians are sick to death of this self-serving Russian lie, and the current RT article’s spin which conveys it so well is contemptible. Stole and Srbin, your comments are sufficiently ridiculous to where logical analysis of them is impossible. Norman Hill, just who are the people in Estonia who would support Nazis? Knowing quite a bit more about Estonia and Estonians than you do, your baseless observation strikes me as being nonsense. Alexstone, Soviet Russians destroyed the Baltics’ independence started mass-murdering and mass-deporting their people already in 1940-41, when the Baltics were neutral and when Russia itself was in partnership with Nazi Germany. Read a bit of history, and please don’t play the violin about how Russians suffered to save Estonians from Nazism, or from anything else. And by the way, I’ve been to Estonia many times, and the only offensive item that anyone has ever tried to sell me was a Soviet army hat.

alexstone August 01, 2010, 12:37 quote
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August 01, 2010, 10:57, marko wrote > Stole & Srbin: I can well imagine that if internet would've been invented in 1930's these would be exactly like the comments some brainwashed blue eyed Hitler Jugend members would have been writing about jews or their neighbouring countries. > Can you spend a minute thinking that you might be victims of Russian hate campaign against Estonians? If you believe that Soviet Union lied to it's people about basically everything, why is it so hard to believe that Russian current government could be doing the same and use you to achieve their goals? Or do you really trust them? And in response, can you stretch your closed mind far enough to understand Russians don't care? Tthe anti-russian vitriol coming out of Estonia is as virulent as ever. Both Russia and the rest of the EU are tired of it, which is why nations traditionally opposed to old Russia took a deep breath, and decided to form mutually beneficial partnerships with New Russia, a huge example being Nordstream? We're all tired of being held to ransom by your inability to look forward. That's the reason young people are leaving as noted in the Estonian newspapers. Read it for yourself. As for Estonia having no problems with its neighbours, that's not true. The anti-nazi protesters described in the report came from Latvia and Lithuania. Watch it carefully, and note that a bus was prevented from entering for "3 drops of oil". That's even clumsier propaganda, and a lamer excuse, than the US normally trot out. There's is no hate campaign against Estonians. Russians and the rest of the EU don't care, they're getting on with their lives, and aren't interested in the rhetoric coming out of the populist oriented Estonian govenrment, and media. It's the 21st century. The rest of Europe and Russia have grown up and are buidling new partnerships, including refusing to glorify Nazi ideology. Estonia is sliding into irrelavence, and rather sadly, it's of their own doing.

stole August 01, 2010, 12:46 quote
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Marko, I believe and trust what I see and what I saw on this news clip is what I believe in. Are you telling us it was imaginary tale? Tell us what you believe in Marko, facts or fiction?????? May be you prefer to believe in Fox News when Georgian and South Ossetian War was presented in America as if Russians were the aggressors!?!?!? Or maybe when that South Ossetian girl on Fox News when interviewed was cut off when she started telling the truth!?!? Tell us Marko, what you believe in?!?!?!?!?

Srbin August 01, 2010, 13:03 quote
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@Marko, I come to my conclusions about Baltic Nations rabid anti-Russianism from their ACTIONS. Pls. name ONE "hate" campaign by Russia against Baltic Nation?

stole August 01, 2010, 13:45 quote
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Marzipan6, It’s all out in the open for everyone to see that Estonia is a bastion and breeding ground for future Fascists leaders-like Hitler-with the support of the Estonian Government because their fascist activities are going on unopposed. Afghanistan was just like Estonia-a breeding ground for future terrorists who eventually brought down the twin towers in America. Will Russia wait to happen something like that in its territory by the Fascist Estonians before it’s too late? Russians have tested the bitter pill once before and they will not let it happen again.

Wiking August 01, 2010, 14:03 quote
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to stole Ok, stole, tell us what did you see in this newsclip? Presenter spoke about glorification of nazism and nazi symbols, I somehow missed the picture of that? Did you get it? Pictures of Hitler? Swastikas? Horst Wessel song? In the beginning, when Jüri Liim is speaking, the English translation of his speach is wrong. Hi does not mention any wolrd wars nor say that soon the third war will start which will bring freedom to the world. Maybe he said that during his speach, I do not know. But he definetly did not say it during this clip. Nice work, RT! New goes on, saying that Estonian Waffen SS was created in 1944 and it killed thousands of civilians. Where? In Estonia? Beacause that's where its fighting was done. Just like that, without any reference RT says taht those men killed civilians. Anti-facist commitees are joke and should be treated as such. There are no fazism in Estonia, Latvia, Finland. What is common in those countries is that they all have fought against Soviet Union. Fighting monster like Soviet Union is not nazism. Those so called anti-facist are siply pupets of Russian imperialism, longing for times of SU and will attack anyone who says something bad about their beloved Gulag-ridden, KGB-ruled Soviet Union. You can call you organisation whatever youl like, it must be judged by its activities. If pedofiles are creating organisations "Friends of children", then RT would produce the news that "Friends of children" were not allowed to Estonia?;)

marko August 01, 2010, 14:04 quote
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alexstone: I don't think I have closed mind as I try to follow Finnish, Russian and International news. WHat news do you follow? And Russians really do care. This report proves that very well. And basically every single Russian I've met have a belief that Estonians are treating Russians badly and they are at least somewhat fascists. And these are intellect and educated people, but also victims of living in country where all the news about Estonia are negative. Some have stated that they'll never go to visit Estonia as it's so terrible there. My Russian wife still subconsciensly thinks that she shouldn't speak Russian in Estonia even though she has never in our many trips there haven't yet found any evidence of this "nazism". So deep goes the lies of Russian media. Nordstream is economical project and nothing more for EU nations. If these Latvian and Lithuenian so called anti fascists are anything like the Finnish version of this Kremlin's lapdogs, they have absolutely nothing to do with Latvian or Lithuanian state or the people. If this is really the best you can come up, it's rather pathetic. The report was one sided Russian propaganda film telling "facts" without any proof and any comment from Estonian officials. This is called propaganda. Or do you really believe in your heart that this report was neutral and objective??

Wiking August 01, 2010, 14:12 quote
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to Sribin You are asking us to name one hate campaign of Russia against Estonia and saying that Estonian actions are anti-russian. So, perhaps you would be so kind and name those actions against mighty Russia? As for Russian hate campaign, first thing that pops up in my mind is Russian Duma delagation visiting Estonia right after bronze soldier removal and riots saying that Estonian govenrment should step down (hello, we are independent country now, not some krai on you borders) and that statue of bronze soldier was broken in three (which it was not). Estonia has ratified border agreement, Russia has not done it. Russia refuses to give back property of Tartu University, which was stolen during the Soviet times. I dn ont know if those tinghs qualify as a hate campaign, but it is certanly revange to Estonia for leaving embracing arms of mother russia and obtaining much higher standards of living than this poor mother.

Wiking August 01, 2010, 14:18 quote
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to stole By the way, about South-Ossetian war. How many civilians were killed during that war? Over 2000 as was reported by RT and other Russian news agencies or 162 as was reported much later by Russian authorities? So what was that first number? Lie? Propaganda? Stupidity?

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