Every one has a right, as part of freedom of speech and expression, to see things as they want, what they don't have a right to do is disrupt and impinge and force that view on other people. There is no problem with the Baltic states using this day to commemorate one thing, and us Russians using this day to remember our fallen ones, the ones who through great suffering defeated Nazi Germany, that is what I will be celebrating on May 9th as a proud Russian. No one owns the days, so do what you want on each day. If people want to celebrate a rebirth of Germany, If others want to celebrate a rebirth of European freadom, its fine by me. If they want to celerate their birthdays, aniverseries .... great have fun! Just don't come forcing yur views down my throat. Because I am free to be free. I don't have to come to your party!

RT deserves credit for running this story. Similar, and even more candid factual accounts need to be run especially in the Russian language media, for the education of ordinary Russians. Stalin conscripted the full propaganda and terror capacity of the state to whitewash his aggression against Russia’s Baltic neighbours, and his successors continued the lie. Then when the Soviet regime collapsed and Russia became adrift ideologically and spiritually, Putin chose a mythologized distortion of Russia’s WW2 experience, based on Stalin’s orientations, as a foundation on which to re-build Russia’s self-respect. This obviously allowed no room to investigate the truth of what Soviet Russia did to the Baltics – and not just in 1941 or 1945 or 1947, but what it did to them all the way through to 1991. Russians believe a grossly distorted view of Soviet Baltic history because its leaders conditioned them to believe it. And today’s generation of Russian leaders continue to repeat those same distortions because Russian people expect them to. The result of this closed loop is constant foreign policy set-backs for Russia in regard to the West, an arc of distrustful and aggrieved neighbours, historical wounds which will not heal, added tensions with the EU and NATO, and a missing out for all concerned on the economic and cultural benefits that genuine co-operation between Russia and its neighbours could otherwise bring. The above article is not an unqualified admission of the reality of Soviet Russian actions in the Baltics, and prefers to deflect attention from Soviet crimes by focussing on Nazi ones. It similarly uses the sacrifice of Soviet soldiers who died fighting the Nazis for the Baltics to gloss over the horrors that the same Soviet regime immediately began inflicting on Baltic civilians after it had conquered their countries. And Vasily Rubtsov’s assertion that all that matters is that there’s no more war overlooks the fact that for the Baltics the war ended only in late 1991 when their occupation finally ended and their sovereignty was restored. But for all its shortcomings, the article is edging towards an acknowledgement of the facts, and this is to be commended and encouraged.

Revolution should be regarded as a human quest for liberation (in order to restore a broad field of hope for life). However to view a war in any context of liberation must always fail. Rubtsov is fighting because being attacked and called supporting artillery to aim his own position! He didn’t offer himself as a variable for war bargain, what he could. There is no liberation romance or human rights in combat and Victory does not stay for this, but recalls the fighting reality. His quest is no-war state as the balance point for all war participants. It is ultimately our recognition of military value of human inner structure and culture. No army ever moved in direction of liberating any extermination camps or the like. Only The End of war walked into the camps - if it was along the road. Introducing liberation into Victory Day is breaking reality into crumbs for sake of making intellectual cake sold at fast food corners. Victory Day is war acquisition on Russian asset side in particular as the universal symbol of human ultimate moral activity required to defend own collective integrity.

I am from Norway. Here we celebrate today (8th of May) as the day of defeat for the occupying forces. However, the people in the northern Norway was freed half a year earlier, thanks to the russians who pushed the Nazi occupying forces out of there, where they didn't belong. There is not a single norwegian who speaks ill of the russian fight against the nazis. However, I can well imagine that other parts of the world that conspired with the nazis, like Ukraine and the baltics, felt a great loss when the nazis were defeated. However I can tell you all this: if it wasn't for the russians there would be no democracy in Europe today, the baltics would have NO freedom, and there would be no 8th of May/9th of May to celebrate. This is the wrong day for ANYONE to blame the russians. This is a day to celebrate what they sacrificed for all of us.

Certainly, the Baltics did NOT have freedom when the Soviet Union occupied them! Ironically, they only had freedom after the Soviet Union collapsed. And certainly, we should celebrate the mass deportations and Russification that happened in the Baltic States. The difference with Norway is that the Soviet army did not stay and occupy Norway, so you cannot compare Norway and the Baltic States.

Andreas, thank you! yoiu are a one who knows a gift to cherrish. That shows your wisdom. For my part, I think, every one can think what they think. The only time I draw the line, is when those words turn into actions. When someone pulled on a Nazi uniform, or collaborated with the Nazis, wherever they came from, France, Belgium, Ukraine, the Baltics ... those weren't then thoughts, they are actions. These actions, I can never forgive, not because of the countries from which they came. I don't see it in national terms. But for the pure fact, that these individuals joined the Nazis, for whatever reason, and these Nazis wreaked such havoc, devastaion and suffering on all of the worlds people. My people suffered hugely, their suffering will always be in my mind on May 9th, I will never forget them, the sacrifices they made for my freedom, it is why I am able to write this note now. All people who wan't to remember the suffering of people who worked for the defeat of the Nazis are welcome in my party! From any country in the world!

I thought Russia was very close to being defeated by the Nazi's, And then, didn't a country by the name of USA come in and defeat the Nazi's. I think that his how I remember the story.

CountCash wrote, “Every one has a right, as part of freedom of speech and expression, to see things as they want, what they don't have a right to do is disrupt and impinge and force that view on other people.” I entirely agree, but I doubt that Moscow would. Two years ago Estonia re-located a monument that Stalin had erected in the Estonian capital in 1947, at the very height of Stalinist terror against the civilian population. It was a monument to Soviet occupation of the country, and replaced an earlier wooden monument on the site which two teenage schoolgirls had destroyed in reprisal against Estonian monuments that the Red Army was systematically destroying (the girls were sentenced to hard labour in Siberia for their trouble – you can see a Soviet prison picture of one at http://www.okupatsioon.ee/english/photos/index.html ). The monument was re-located to a beautiful and dignified military cemetery a few kilometres away, and re-dedicated as a memorial to all people of all nationalities who died in war in Estonia. The remains of unknown soldiers that had been haphazardly buried, without any grave markers, in the original downtown park were respectfully exhumed, identified, and re-buried with full military honours by the monument in its new location, with relatives of the deceased being flown from Russia to attend the re-burial at the expense of the Estonian government. Meanwhile the original downtown park location was turned into an absolutely beautiful sea of live flowerbeds, which I personally saw. Everything was done in full accordance with all internationally accepted protocols and norms. Yet the amaziang eruption of vehement anti Estonian hostility which this evoked from Russia is something unprecedented in international relations. I don’t think there has ever been any comparable display by one country (Russia) as a result of another country (Estonia) relocating within its capital a monument of a third country (the Soviet Union). You see, CountCash, Russians apparently do not hold to your ethic of not wanting to disrupt and impinge and force their view on other people. They were apparently wanting their view to hold sway in Estonia, and were livid when this could not succeed.

Andreas writes, “There is not a single Norwegian who speaks ill of the Russian fight against the Nazis.” Andreas, no Estonian speaks ill of the Russian fight against Nazis, either. They speak ill only of Russia’s occupation of Estonia, and of the resulting half-century of suffering and loss that this caused. Estonians used to speak ill of the Nazi occupation of Estonia, too. But then, Germany apologised for its aggression against Estonia, became a genuine friend and partner, and bad feelings ended. They would end in regard to Russia too, if Russia were to do likewise. And Andreas, Estonians were not pro-Nazi during the War; they were anti Soviet and anti-Nazi, both. Both those foreign occupants caused vast damage to their country. But by any objective measure, Soviet oppression was even harsher than Nazi oppression (this may not have been true in a country like Poland, for example, but it was in Estonia). Consequently when Germany was already clearly losing the war and Russians were on their way back to resume their interrupted atrocities of 1941, many Estonians chose to fight in German uniform against the Soviets. They did this not for German war aims, but in an attempt to prevent the Soviet re-occupation of their homeland until the war ended. This was a totally understandable position given the fact that Germans were on the way out anyway, that Russians were on their way back, that Estonians had no army of their own in whose colours to fight thanks to Russia’s disbandment of it in 1941, and that all Estonians remembered the horrors of the first Soviet Russian occupation in 1941-2, and were eager to do whatever they could to prevent this terror from returning. In the event they failed, and a new nearly 50-year Soviet occupation was imposed on their country. The oppression and tyranny of that occupation amply justified Estonians’ desperate attempts to stop it from happening. If you want to learn a little more of the subject, you may check the following websites: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Baltic_Republics and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonia_in_World_War_II .

Todd, There was a collaborative effort, no argument there. However, WWII went global after its official beginning in 1939, and determining who contributed most to the final victory has been a matter of endless debate among amateurs. Nazis were not defeated by a single country. It might come as a surprise, but there were other countries fighting alongside Nazis Germany: Japan, Italy and few others. So do you seriously and unquestionable believe that that USA had defeated them all? It was not for successful campaign on the Eastern Front, the outcome of the WWII would have been very different, just like without the allies and their engagement in Africa and Asia the success on the Eastern Front would not have been enough neither.

Marzipan, Read the warning at the top of the wikipedia page that you referred to: "It represents a biased view". You want to be objective? Then provide a good historical data to support your views, please do not give a ill-conceived references to unverifiable or wrong information - it completely destroys your point.

To “Get Your Story Straight”: The Wikipedia article about the occupation of the Baltic States had been up for a long time. The issues box relating to it appeared only last month. I have referred to this article on a number of occasions on RT, and for all that I know the objection to it might have even arisen because of my reference to the article. Because of the nature of Wikipedia, anyone can contribute text and anyone can challenge what has been contributed. The issue is not one of who is right and who is wrong, but rather, of WHAT is right and WHAT is wrong. The article details its own factual arguments, and lists copious historical references supporting its assertions. Those assertions are no different than you can read in any other academic encyclopaedia, for example Britannica or Americana, and in any relevant history text. I referred to Wikipedia because it is convenient. You may find precisely the same information and the same conclusion in any encyclopaedia or relevant history text in any library. To see an overview of the objections to Wikipedia’s article, click on the “talk page” link in the Issues box, and you will find that the objections are insubstantial and contradict established historical facts. Please also check, if you have the interest, the many historical references to which the article itself refers, and you will find they are incontrovertible. The Estonian and other Baltic people have never, at any time, been under any illusions about that fact that 17 of June 1940 until August of 1991 they were under anything other than foreign occupation – first by the Red Army, then by Third Reich, and then by the Soviet Union again. This view is shared by the West. As an example, I refer you to the US Senate Resolution 187 of May 3, 2007. It states, in part, “It is the sense of the Senate that the Soviet Union's brutal, decades-long occupation of Estonia was illegal, illegitimate, and a patent violation of Estonia's sovereignty and right to self-determination.” You may find the full text of the Resolution at http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.RES.187.ATS: The Senate Resolution does not establish the historical fact of Soviet Baltic occupation, but it is an example of the general acceptance of that fact.

The pulling on of a Nazi uniform by anyone, from any country, is never forgiveable. To wear it was a choice, the choice taken was to support the Nazis, and that is, what we are speaking of, the Nazis. When I remember the resistance fighters, the French, the Poles... I am sure they would have had an easier life to don the Nazi uniform, but they didn't, sometimes it even meant the death and torture of their family and friends. These are the people with character, with spirit, who knew that a deal with the devil, was not a deal at all. These are the ones who went to the depth of their souls, sometimes alone, to defeat the Nazis. I humbly honour and respect every one of them. Remember there was no German uniform, the German uniform was honourably worn before and after the Nazis. The Nazi uniform, was a product of the Nazis. I have greatest respect for Germany and its soldiering, I have utter vile repugnant revulsion for the Nazis and their supporters and collaborators who were responsible for the suffering of the whole world. The distiction is clear. Anyone who took up the Nazi uniform was a Nazi, they need to deal with this, before they can ever hope to move forward.

CountCash, could I please point out the following? I don’t expect you to necessarily agree with what I write, but I do want you and interested readers to have the following to consider. What makes a uniform odious? Not its style or cut, but the suffering, the injustice, the atrocities, the criminality, the wanton murder with which its wearers ended up indelibly smearing on it. By this criteria, the uniform of the Red Army became a horror in Estonia in 1940-41. Its wearers raped the country (figuratively) and so many of its people (literally). They stole everything that the country had, and made it their own. In fact, they stole the country itself, smashed its independence and said it did not exist any more. Then they rounded up thousands upon thousands of absolutely innocent men, women and children, babes in arms and elderly, in accordance with plans drawn up more than a year before, tore them away from their homes in the middle of the night, threw them into cattle wagons at railway sidings throughout the country, and transported them into Siberian slavery, from which most never returned. People started dying in the wagons before the trains even left the sidings. And then they arrested, tortured and killed hundreds upon hundreds of others. Including one of my uncles, by the way. That was the fame of the uniform of the Red Army in Estonia, CountCash. And then, in 1942, the German occupation arrived. They had a uniform too, also a nice one. And at that time they had not besmirched it in Estonia in quite the same way as the Soviets had theirs. Oh, they were brutal, all right. But the Soviets were monstrous. Estonians had no uniform or army of their own to fight in – Soviets had already disbanded theirs in 1941. So what army – whose uniform – could they possibly fight in to try to prevent Soviet from returning in 1944? You suggest they might have followed the example of the French and Polish resistance fighters, and they did – there were plenty of Estonian resistance fighters. They called themselves the Forest Brothers, and operated as a guerrilla force until the late 1950s. But they could never prevent the Red Army from re-invading the country and continuing its atrocities against their families and loved ones. So they followed the example of the French and Poles some more, and joined foreign armies. There were French and Polish units within the British army. Unfortunately that was not an option for Estonians, or they would have taken it (although they did sail the Estonian merchant navy fleet, contrary to Moscow’s instructions, to Britain, and operated it throughout the War as part of the British merchant navy). The only organised armies that were available to them that were fighting Russians were the Finnish and German armies. Thousands fought in each, not for Finnish or German war aims, but in a desperate attempt to delay the return of the Red terror, in the hope that the war might end first. It didn’t, they failed, the Reds returned and their Stalinist horrors along with them, and Estonia was occupied almost another fifty years. In 1943-44, the full horror of Nazism wasn’t known in Estonia, Nazism was not a policy of any Estonian government, nor was Estonia a Nazi ally – it was under Nazi occupation and had no government of its own. A few misguided individuals participated in German war crimes, but only a few. It was distasteful for Estonians to fight in foreign uniform, but history left them without the luxury of choice. The only real alternative was to passively succumb to the returning Red terror, and no way was Estonia about to do that. CountCash, you judge Estonia and its people not on the basis of the knowledge, resources and choices that were available to them in 1943-45. You judge them on the basis of a breadth and depth of hindsight which is available to you in 2009, on the basis of ignorance of the realities that they had to deal with, and possibly on the basis of much Russian propaganda conditioning which has not always been realistic. Could I respectfully suggest that if you were living in Estonia and had experienced the Soviet atrocities of 1940-41, the less severe German crimes of 1942-44, and then saw the Red Army on its way back in 1945 to continue its terrors against your loved ones, your family, your neighbours, your land, you too might have donned any uniform at all that might have been available, even a German one, to try to save them.

The Nazis took control of Germany, they transfomed Germany into a Nazi German state, that means they took contol of everything, all ministries, the military, industrialisation, education .... The military became the hand of the Nazis, it ceased to be a German army. They became the hands to commit attrocities not only in terms of Nazi territorial gain for living space, but also against the Jews in the Holocoust Everyone knew this, all across Europe, it was common knowledge, what had happened to Germany. So when people pulled on the Nazi suit, they new, exactly what they were doing, they knew it there and then. In the Baltic's case they pulled on the suits to fight the Allies - that means the Soviets, the Poles, the Americans, the Canadians, indeed all the allies. That is what it meant to pull on a Nazi suit. To be asked to believe otherwise is more than laughable. When they pulled those suits on, they also joined the spirit of the Holocaust, in the Baltics, in Poland, some even directly assisted with the final solution. Which subsequent goverments tried to cover up. This is what the Simon Wiesenthal centre had to say about Estonia. "Justice sometime arrives too late for criminal prosecution but at long last the shadow of doubt regarding the wartime crimes of Evald Mikson has finally dissipated and his important role in the mass murder of Estonian Jews had finally been authoritatively confirmed." We are particularly pleased that the official Estonian Commission has noted Miksons criminal activities because for quite some time leading Estonian officials, and even the Estonian Foreign Ministry, had sought to defend Mikson and deny his participation in crimes against humanity." The Baltic Nazis, thanks to all the Aliies were defeated, cleaned out, routed. They chose to be Nazis, they knew exactly what they were doing, yes they lost, and when you loose, like a criminal, you try to justify your acts. You try to change the story, the naked truth that you joined the Nazis becomes unbearable, we all know how this game goes. They could have fought as resistance, at least I could have had respect for that, but no they didn't, they lined up in droves to wear that 'nice uniform' and become part of the Nazi cause. The Victory day celebrations are to commemorate the defeat of the Nazis, from wherever they came, This defeat must always be final. We need send a clear meassage to our children, that to be a Nazi was evil, be it in Germany or elsewhere, and anything to do with the Nazis was evil. We need send a message as simple as that. Otherwise Nazism will return, on the back of political manipulation. The extremist fringe groups will grow and multiply like flies on a dead body. Now as I have said many times, people are free to remember what they want on any day, but the 9th of May for us, is the Victory day to clebrate victory over the Nazis, as simple as that, a celebration of that fact, in all its historical factual detail. That Nazism was defeated by the Allies. It is a celebration to remember those that suffered in the defeat of the Nazis.

In the light of CountCash’s comments, I point out the following. (1) No Estonians ever fought against British, Americans or Canadians in any war in history. As I pointed out, Estonians even sailed their merchant fleet to British ports and operated these throughout WW2 as part of the British merchant navy. (2) Estonian units that were raised by Germany towards the end of WW2 were used exclusively for fighting against the Red Army, and they distinguished themselves in this on the battlefield. This is because Germans knew that Estonians had absolutely no heart for fighting Western allies, and that they had extreme motivation for fighting Russians, to try to prevent the return of the 1940-41 Soviet atrocities to their homeland. (3) Estonia has never denied that at a time when there was no Estonian government in place and the country was under German occupation, a handful of nationals participated in German war crimes. This is a matter of profound shame to Estonia, and always will be, and the post-Soviet Estonian government has apologised for this on numerous occasions, even though the crimes were not its policies. War crimes and human rights abuse has never been state policy in Estonia like it has been in Germany and Russia, and Russia has never apologised for its Soviet-era state crimes against the Baltics. (4) Not every target of the Simon Wiesenthal Institution has evidence associated with it to sustain a credible prosecution, whether in Estonia or anywhere else. (5) Neither CountCash nor anyone else has ever substantiated anything related to WW2 that Estonia has sought to “cover up”. Reckless unsubstantiated accusations, however, cost nothing to make. (5) I totally agree with CountCash that Nazism was evil. I would welcome a similarly unequivocal statement from him that Stalin’s Soviet Union was also evil. (6) I disagree with CountCash that the putting on of a uniform makes one evil. It depends why one puts the uniform on, and on what he does when he wears it. For example, the mass atrocities committed by the Red Army in the Baltics and elsewhere made their uniform, which was a symbol of Soviet power, into an object of horror for those who suffered under it. But I certainly do not believe that every wearer of that uniform was evil. Many were just ordinary people, doing the best they could to defend their country within a system that was evil. Many were humane, most were exceptionally brave, and by no means were all Communists. The same is true of Germans wearing the WW2 military uniforms: the system they served was evil, but many of the men weren’t. They were just ordinary people, caught up in extraordinary circumstances. Yet the crimes of Soviet Communism and Nazi Germany were both so gross, that the symbolism of each is besmirched forever in the minds of their countless victims. Estonians were neither Nazi Germans nor Soviet Russians. They were the victims of both totalitarian monstrosities, and never had a Nazi, fascist or Communist government of their own. There were Estonians who wore the uniforms of Germany and Russia, most by conscription, some by choice, because each entity was fighting at least one of the enemies of Estonia. None fought for the war aims of Stalin or of Hitler. Each fought, as best he could, for his country, and that country was neither Germany nor Russia. Estonian units within the German military pointedly refused to swear allegiance to Hitler, and Germany was so eager for manpower against Russia that they allowed this to stand. (7) In WW2, Estonia had no friends, no allies, no sides, only enemies. No matter who would win, Estonia would lose. It followed a policy of strict pre-War neutrality, hoping thereby to keep out of the war, but hoping vainly. First the Soviets, then the Nazis and then the Soviets again invaded and occupied them. Having no army of its own any more, Estonians donned the uniforms of several countries – Finland, Germany, Russia and Britain, each man doing his best where he was for his own homeland. Those who became guilty of crimes did so because of their actions, not because of the threads they wore. But there were very few whose actions were criminal. Life is much more complicated than CountCash represents.

long lived soviet union!that's the only thing i have to say!

To Soviet Knight: the facts may be unfamiliar and the objective analysis of them quite new for one who has been nurtured only by Soviet viewpoints. And the conclusions they inevitably lead to may well be disturbing. But grasping these realities (because realities is what they are) and dealing honestly and constructively with them is the only way for Russia to recover from its Soviet sickness at home, and win the respect, trust and friendship of neighbours abroad. You say, “Long live the Soviet Union.” But the Soviet Union did not and could not live long. Neither will any political system that holds to its values.

We Americans had instances of that in Vietnam, where air strikes had to be called own on our own positions, because that was where the enemy was. Hello to Zbarazh, Ukraine, home of my grandparents!